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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Sep 2, 2012 3:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

I actually received mine last week, though I was reluctant to post about it. Surprising that there has been no post delivery discussion here about this product. If I ponied up for this box, there have to be a few more here who indulged.

Initially I was quite impressed by the artwork and packaging, easily the finest and most creative of any music product that the Grateful Dead have produced thus far. I ripped all the discs onto my hard drive immediately. There were few glitches in coding and consolidation was easier than the Europe '72 Box.

Lot's of accouterments were included in this release; reproductions of Tour Booklet ticket stubs and the accompanying enclosures, promo materials, replications of backstage passes, etc. Reasonably high quality jewel boxes resplendent with cool artwork, and these diversions briefly made me wax nostalgic about long gone touring days.

But in spite of what just might be the finest sound quality of any Grateful Dead release to date, I can't find any compelling music in this box. I've listened to a shit load of Grateful Dead over the weekend. Tried several times to find something of quality among these 18 disks, and have even endured listening to a couple of the disc # 3's. Yet to find anything even moderately interesting. Black Muddy River? Standing on the Moon? Gimme' Some Loving? Gimme' a fucking break! I paid $200 plus shipping for this garbage?

Observations:

It's a travesty that the performances from 3/24 and 3/29 were not included in this release. It smacks of profiteering!

This release is so well produced that I can t wait for the next one, whatever that might be.

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Poster: scotch_glass Date: Sep 3, 2012 9:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

I agree with this 100%. Without bashing anyone who enjoys this era of the band, there is just not much there I enjoy. I spent a lot of time with this box set, as well as streaming some of the rest of the tour, and I think there is so few memorable moments that I can go back and re-listen to over and over.

While I don't discredit the fact that this may be the best tour from 1990 or the later years in general but the music in this box isn't even close to the music produced during the Europe 72, Fall 73 or Spring 77 tours as claimed by the Vault Master himself. There is no passion, there is no inspiration and there is barely any creativity from the band during these shows.

I love the production of this box and everything that is included but I feel there is much more music worthy of the box set treatment that I'm sure will be released in the future, but at one box set release a year, a tour like this could've been put on the back burner for a while.

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Poster: EyesWereThere Date: Sep 7, 2012 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

This was undoubtledly one of their best stretch runs, maybe not comparable to '77, or '72, but definitely so to other eras. That said, I don't get the selections here. Spring doesn't end in March as far as I know, and not including some really strong sets from Cal Expo, Shoreline, and Oregon (ok..that was summer, but just.) is a shame. The Eyes from Autzen on the 23rd of June is sublime, as is the China/Rider from Shoreline 6/16. I went to all 8 shows on the pacific run and Cal Expo on 6/8/90 was my favorite. Nonetheless none of those got play here so I don't think it is a very thorough compilation of how the band played night to night. No doubt they were tight in the early spring...but it didn't end there. Also see Kansas on the 7/4 as another great example. I think they made the mistake of sticking to "spring" shows and not just highligting all the great shows from 89-90n that had Brent playing in the band. There were just too many amazing moments to be so short-sighted in selection.

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Poster: EyesWereThere Date: Sep 7, 2012 3:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

And if we're gonna do 1990, you can't do it right without the New Years Run that Year, though it was after Brent died. All 4 shows are really superb.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 2, 2012 6:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Cliff's wallet evidently doesn't follow his heart...
You knew it was garbage ahead of time!

But anyway - it makes sense that 3/24 (except for some set-1 bonus tracks) wasn't included, since set II was already part of Dozin' at the Knick. (Although they did repeat some songs from 3/26...)
And I suspect it's a relief for many that 3/29 wasn't included. Would most people rather see 3/29 as a CD release by itself, or as part of a $200 box set?
This might be called the "Spring '90 Shows Not Quite Worth Releasing By Themselves" box set...

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Sep 3, 2012 1:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

LIA - you're a legend (I've marveled at many of your earlier posts and overall (Dead) knowledge), but this:

"But anyway - it makes sense that 3/24 (except for some set-1 bonus tracks) wasn't included, since set II was already part of Dozin' at the Knick".

don't make sense.

They released the original E72, then 'Hundred Year Hall', then 'Rockin' The Rhein' then 'Steppin' Out' (not necessarily in that order, but close) yet they still managed to include all of them in the most recent E72 'Complete Recordings' trunk/music collection. So they could have/probably should have included all the shows that were relevant to the 'Spring 1990' title, if they're gonna call it 'Spring 1990'.

That said, it's all academic, 'cos I won't be buying it anyway.

You remain a leg-end, even if I don't necessarily agree with literally everything you say.

Keep on Truckin'

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 3, 2012 2:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Well... The thing is, the E72 box set was "Complete"! (Except for a couple little scraps.)
For them to have left out the music included on, say, Steppin' Out & Hundred Year Hall would've been silly, I think.

This box set is merely a selection of 6 shows, which goes to some lengths not to repeat any shows previously released. (Exceptions: some songs from 3/26 are repeated from Dozin', the 3/22 S>F was on So Many Roads, and the 3/30 H>S>F was on Without a Net.)
It's noticeable how they waltzed around all the previously released 3/24 tracks for this set. Buyers can't toss away their old Dozin' CDs now! So the decision-making is entirely different than what it was for E72 (likewise, the decision not to remix from the 24-track).
Maybe this box set would be better "value" if it had the complete 3/24 show in one place, or if they did stick the Marsalis show in there. It does make sense to me why they didn't, but it's a debatable issue!
Perhaps this could be renamed the "Remaining 3/24/90 Tracks Plus Six Random Spring '90 Shows As Filler" box set...

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 3, 2012 5:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Since it is a limited release, if they sell out the box, then you are correct, it made sense to leave 3-24 and 3-29 out so they can sell them in addition to the "Random Six." One could argue that all those shows would have done was resulted in the box selling out faster. However if they are unable to sell a significant portion of those last 1200 boxes, then it was a mistake to leave one or both of those shows out. I probably would have pulled the trigger if 3-24 and 3-29 were in the box so I am happy they were excluded. I can hope and wait to see if they will appear as individual releases or just listen to the copies I already own.

There was a lot of speculation that these were not the 24-track recordings based on the somewhat mirky language in the announcement. Has that been confirmed? That is a real shame if it is true. This box came out to be a lot more $/disc than E72 and apparently required a lot less work on the music end. You really are just paying for artwork and "accouterments" as Cliff noted.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 3, 2012 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

It's a good question what we Archive denizens, with thousands of shows, are really paying for when we buy the exact same tapes from dead.net - just nice packaging, basically!

I'm sure the box set must have some liner notes talking about the source tapes, so someone who has the box could confirm. But from what I read on LL, the 24-tracks were not used. And (as opposed to E72) there was conspicuously no mention of any lengthy remixing project from dead.net.

Since I can't compare the mixes, I won't judge whether this was for better or worse. With Norman at the helm, it's debatable whether a 24-track remix would actually be better than a rough mix made at the time. (I know I prefer some of the E72 2-track mixes to some of the E72 box-set mixes.)

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Poster: Arck Date: Sep 3, 2012 5:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

I can't understand the reasoning behind this. If the other shows will supposedly come out later, why not just release all of them now? If they release some of them later as individual shows they're conceding that this set was just a way to get people to buy shows they wouldn't want to get as individual releases, in order to jack up the price.

I probably would have considered getting it if it had been a complete tour or, more likely, something logical like a complete Nassau box. A selection of some shows from a tour, many of which are commonly regarded as nowhere near the best, delivered in a box with the assurances that other (i.e. better) shows from the tour will come out later? Give me my Winterland '73 set any day.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 3, 2012 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Their reasoning was probably just as mercenary as you say. Since it was left off this set, I'm in no doubt that 3/29/90 will be released in full someday, by itself. (As long as there are no royalty issues with Marsalis.)
3/24/90, I would guess won't be on any more releases.

Another difference from E72 is that they said this time they will not release these shows individually. So personally I think it was the wise choice not to include 3/29, so it will be available to more people later on.

Why this wasn't the complete spring '90 tour - that's interesting to speculate. After all it wouldn't be nearly as many CDs as E72, and the setlists are more diverse, plus this set has much more of a "nostalgia factor" for the people who were there (as we're seeing in this thread). Since I'm not much of a '90 fan, it seems to me like an admission that the music doesn't hold up as well over the whole tour.
At any rate, demand for this was much less than for E72 - it's unbelievable they STILL haven't sold out! (Maybe they're now kicking themselves for not including 3/29.)
Financially, though, it was probably in their interests to save the best, most famous show for later release, even though it makes this set less 'valuable.' They'll sell it out eventually.

By the way, I'm not opposed to the "selection of shows from a tour" idea - I think it would often be better than the "run of shows from a single venue" that they so often go with. (For instance, I think a release of 11/11, 11/14 + 11/17/73 would've been stronger in some ways than the Winterland 11/9-11/73 set.)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2012 1:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

I NEVER get involved in these threads about eras well beyond my own, but I am also surprised by how many folks that discuss the early era with me purchased this...I really see almost no connections in the music (easy for me to say since I excise the "connecting" 19 yrs by choice).

IMHO, they are just two different bands, one of which is really off, UNLESS you were there...?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 2, 2012 6:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

The first set of 3-24-90 is a seemingly lost gem. The first seven songs are money. I just don't like 8 (Jed) or 9 (OMSN), the latter I believe used on W/out a Net. Loser and Desolation Row are out of this world.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 2, 2012 11:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Well, they did pick 6 songs from the 3/24 first set for the box set - even TN Jed made the cut.
So now, far from being "a lost gem," all the songs from the set have actually been released!

Let the Good Times Roll - BOX SET
Help>Slipknot>Franklin - BOX SET
Walkin Blues - DOZIN AT THE KNICK
Loser - BOX SET
Desolation Row - POSTCARDS OF THE HANGING
Tennessee Jed - BOX SET
Saturday Night - WITHOUT A NET

There can be few Dead sets that have been so split between different releases! For the desperately technical-minded fan, it might be worthwhile to compare how the mixing/mastering techniques differ between all these.
I've heard that the box set mixes were taken from Cutler's 2-track tapes, not the 24-tracks, though that makes no sense at all.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 2, 2012 11:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Impressive LiA. They left CM's source up so I won't complain too much.

The "gem factor" is up for debate, but not how to Frankenstein a set. If they did use the 2-track it would fit right in.

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Poster: brokenarrows Date: Sep 3, 2012 11:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

"It smacks of profiteering!" Cliff's wallet should certainly understand this.

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Poster: capsgd Date: Sep 2, 2012 5:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

just an opinion -no offense to anyone-
here at the archive my love of the GD was renewed
3 yr.s ago I had no idea I'd hear so many great aud.s
recordings...about 10 yrs ago I bought a dozen or more boots
from a CD store (remember them?) I went in one day and was told Mickey Hart had come in the day before and thrown a temper tantrum about these boots.....I got the impression he was saying it was his work and this meant the money was by-passing him/and family -not sure -I wasn't there...
anyway I don't have any of those now..even though they represent a couple hundred $ they were either poor sounding or replaced -like the 66' live I found later in the Warner Bros box set...anyway a few yrs passed before I found the archive...its wonderful!!!
no only great aud.s but wonderful for the semi-unemployed people like me...it renewed my interest in the GD tenfold,
I'd seen them first live in 72'up to 77' but in early 80s lost interest the Warfield 80 stuff didn't impress me..I like it better now..and due to archive I now have about 300 downloads..and have found many jems past the date where I thought they were 'done' but I must say of all the downloads I have listened to- it turns out for me 66' to 82/83' are full of great shows but only a dozen or so after that.
none of the Dicks picks/official releases after 82 hold my interest..they bring me down and send me to the years before
the coma/etc so to me I think the GD from 66' to 83 as the best band ever -passing the Beatles and Stones etc on the live show side -by a far margin
but from what Ive heard of the 90s its sad -and that all I can say...Jerry was a wonder charming considerate man..
up to the end...but I can't dig much of the last 14 yrs

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Sep 2, 2012 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

do they give you the last Death Don't from 04/02?

spring 90 is consistently boring, 03/22, 03/24, 03/28, 03/29 moments notwithstanding...

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Poster: Skobud Date: Sep 3, 2012 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Dennis - First I'll say I agree about the sound. People have been talking all kinds of shit about it(including those who master themselves) specifically about how Cutler's and not Healy's mix was used and the fact that the DAT's off the truck were used instead of the 24 track house boards. That's total bullshit imo(saying the sound is degridated because of the choice of mix). People are calling the mix "soup" and all kinds of other asinine remarks over at LL. The fucking box set sounds great man. The ambient mic's are at a perfect level and the sound is alive. I believe it was the LeMobile truck, the same one they used for the Warlocks box mix.

Anyways - I hear you on the show selections. I think 3/30 is the best of the bunch, particularly the first set. I also think Summer '89 and Spring '90 Brent was doing his very best work, post Jerry coma - getting rid of that Fender Rhodes toy piano bullshit sound and backing off a little and hammering the shit outta the Hammond....He plays and sounds great during this time period and Jerry is playing great. Trying to compare this to any other era is fruitless. Of course it does not hold up to the shit that you and I, and most others really dig.

Its weird for me because this is exactly how I remember them sounding - you were lucky enough to see them before me. I went once on '86, once in 88', then started touring in spring of '89. So essentially when I hear this box and see all the schwag with it, I do get a little sentimental about it. I appreciate it for that and the sound. Will this box set sustain and be a staple after a few months? Probably not, but it will certainly occupy me for the rest of this summer.

I think Cutler and Norman did an absolute remarkable job on the sound. Then again, I like the ambient mic's and being able to hear the love they are getting from the crowd. Its like it's just enough, but not too much.



This post was modified by Skobud on 2012-09-03 14:15:57

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Sep 3, 2012 1:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Ooh, get on you Mr. ace taper.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Sep 3, 2012 5:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Oh gawd, you again....I though we covered this already. For posterity's sake I shall cover it one more time......You Jacky, are without a doubt, have to be the lamest, most boring troll that has ever lived. You contribute nothing, your petty comments are trivial at best, and most of all you are boring as hell. I have no interest in going back and forth with someone who does not even have the gravitas to raise interest on any subject. You dont even post on your own. You are so dull you can only respond to others thoughts. That right there speaks volumes.

Name one time, ever, you have contributed anything to this place.

You are as small as they come. A witless dingbat with zero self awareness. Go away and come back after you read a book - or go fly a kite or mow the grass - whatever floats your boat....I have to admit it is kinda fun pummeling you, but its not even a challenge. You really need to pursue another line of work. Trolling is just not for you.

The honest truth is that I dont understand why you need my attention so badly....I dont follow you around, you follow me around. It just makes me wonder, that's all.

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Sep 4, 2012 10:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

"People have been talking all kinds of shit about it ...

all kinds of other asinine remarks ...

That's total bullshit imo(saying the sound is degridated because of the choice of mix)....

I like the ambient mic's and being able to hear the love they are getting from the crowd. Its like it's just enough, but not too much."

I rest my case !

This post was modified by Jacky Hughes on 2012-09-04 17:32:27

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Poster: Skobud Date: Sep 4, 2012 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Thank god. Now go bother someone else.

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Sep 5, 2012 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

If I remember correctly, you started all this off with your paranoid Kochman bullshit.

You give that a rest and I will do likewise.

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Sep 2, 2012 8:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Heh Cliff,

you know, if you were a fish (instead of a fisherman), you'd get caught every time.

Never mind, maybe next time it'll be something a bit more 'primal'.

Good-natured banter and all that,

TW-4-10-0-9

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 3, 2012 7:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

sounds to me like you are as pleased with this purchase as much as you were pleased in the shows you attended!!!

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Poster: titos ghost Date: Sep 2, 2012 5:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

“Gimme' a fucking break! I paid $200 plus shipping for this garbage?”

Observations:

give the poor fisherman the $200 to feed their families tunafish sandwiches for a couple weeks?

you bilked the poor fisherman out of $100,000 in 1999
the irs placed a lien of $360,000 on your sorry ass for failure to pay taxes in 2001, you then filed bankruptcy at the expense and disposal of your creditors and the irs
and then you lied to us about owning homes in the hamptons, tampa and a fishing boat.

anybodys guess why you split to europe for two years??? what a total douchebag...!!!

spring to 2012: your so-called girlfriend is close to death and you split to sri lanka for a fishing trip??? if you even traveled anywhere at all??? how can we ever believe anything that you say??? the scariest part is the mountain of shit that we dont know about you!!!...

err... serve us up a ny strip and a bottle of montrachet for mason and Cliffty!

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Poster: ll rain Date: Sep 2, 2012 10:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Why would you buy this when you say the 80's Dead sucks? I don't listen to the 60's Dead so I wouldn't buy that.

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Poster: titos ghost Date: Sep 3, 2012 2:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Hey Cliff tell us the story again about your tuna export business that did $93 million dollars in seven years and went belly up...???

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Poster: Space Jogger Date: Sep 3, 2012 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Maybe when you're bored one day putting together furniture or something you'll give it another listen and start to have second thoughts about the set and start to feel like you got your money's worth out of it over time (like one or two listens a year)....or maybe not.

I'm even hesitant to buy 'So Glad You Made It'. I am a fan of the already mentioned great shows from this tour, but I'm not sure about another hacked up compilation.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 5, 2012 10:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

I wasn't familiar with this release so I looked up the track listing. Are the Bird Song and Eyes versions from the Marsalis show?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 5, 2012 11:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Those have already been released. Eyes on W/out a Net & Bird Song from the 5CD Boxed Set Retrospective. That they would use them twice would make me think twice.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 5, 2012 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Thanks. The reason why I ask is that for some of the Spring tour the band was still playing the fast version of Eyes. The one on that compilation was listed at 14 mins plus. Curious where that was taken from

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 5, 2012 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Spring '90 Eyes timings:

3-19 Hartford - 14:43
3-25 Albany - 13:20
3-29 Nassau - 16:25

Must be Hartford? They did not play Eyes during their May Cali dates & it's outside the scope of 'All Good Things'. As I recall it was a good Eyes played in Hartford, but when 3-29 is sitting there in the same tour...

btw - All the SBD's are still up that were up prior to the 'All Good Things release'.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 5, 2012 3:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

It's the Hartford then. I believe that is a fast paced Eyes to boot. I may have to re-listen to that tonight

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Poster: Round Robin Date: Sep 3, 2012 4:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Thanks for the review Cliff, your reviews seem to have a line on most things. Or maybe its just similar tastes.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Sep 3, 2012 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: No longer waiting for delivery of the Spring '90 Box

Though I enjoy it more that you did ( I think BMR, and STOTM are great, but I'm with you on your uncle's old garage band reunion at a wedding reception versions of "Gimme' Some Lovein") , I too found it short on the "compelling side ". This is supposed to be one of the "great" Grateful Dead tours ? I like it but, except for a few pre-drums section, find it sort of bland ( do those Europe 74 shows seem better in comparison now ?).
Oh well, with this out of the way, maybe something more interesting will show up ! And it does sound great .